Jim Carlson: "The Nazis got me again."

spy1

about 12 years ago

This vid is odd enough, but odder still was when the police car pulled away and the throngs gathered in front of the casino cheered Jimbo on. It was OJ chase-like.

Bret

about 12 years ago

Um,the Nazis were all about spreading horrendous costs to the many for the financial benefit of the few. If anything, Carson is the Nazi here, he's the worst sort of capitalist.

lojasmo

about 12 years ago

Thank you, Jim "Godwin" Carlson.

HanseltheOracle

about 12 years ago

I hope that this short stint in St. Louis County Jail will help his greed-filled, sociopathic, deluded mind (yet nonetheless brilliant ... "business-wise")find a sense of reality and make him take a look at what is going on in our city and streets because of his business decisions.    

There isn't a good place to move your business Jim. But, if you are as good as you think or claim you are at entrepreneurism ... then find another trade and make it a positive contribution to yourself and our great city.

Herzog

about 12 years ago

God I love these terse one-liners. Thanks.

emmadogs

about 12 years ago

This disgusting business is bad for the city, the city's prior illegal actions were/are bad for the city -- just shut LPOE down legally now and get it done with.

hbh1

about 12 years ago

I've come to the conclusion that the entire family is plagued with epic-level pathological stubbornness.

Sam

about 12 years ago

Businessmen who were willing to harm others for money collaborated with the National Socialists and profited under the Nazi regime.

Dorkus

about 12 years ago

Good riddance.

Anybody ever walk in there recently? I mean, when I was younger it was fun to go in there and look at the knives, posters, t-shirts, pipes and occasionally giggle at items in the back. 

You go in there now, and every single item that is not a synthetic drug is covered in a layer of dust. They seem to have not sold a single product other than these synthetics for at least a year. 

The odd thing was, when I walked in there were 30 people waiting in line. 30 fidgety people, some with visible sores waiting for their fix. 

If someone wants something to protest, they should protest this shop if it remains open. It is sad to see what is happening in there.

Les F

about 12 years ago

This just in...

Updated Apr 1, 2013 at 12:15 PM CDT

Last Place Owner Charged with Sale of Controlled Substance
Duluth, MN (NNCNOW.com) --- Following a search of his shop last week, Last Place on Earth owner Jim Carlson has been charged with four counts of 4th Degree Sale of a Controlled Substance.

taigagreen

about 12 years ago

I can only hope this is a sign that LPOE's closing resulting this is a sign of its permanent closing, depending on how the felony charges are processed.

Northern Girl

about 12 years ago

There is a noticeable absence of LPOE's patrons on the streets and sidewalks this week. It's a nice change to not see the human blight on every corner. This predator needs to be closed down once and for all.

blind

about 12 years ago

@Northern Girl, how do you define human blight?  I really mean this question.  (And asking this question is not a defense of selling synthetic drugs.)

Northern Girl

about 12 years ago

In this specific instance, drug addicts doing drugs on the street in public.

baci

about 12 years ago

It seems like there may be an opportunity to try and get his clientele into some human services while their use pattern is disrupted? Offer some help to the ones who need it? Get assistance for the children caught up in their parent's drug use?

blind

about 12 years ago

Kudos to Baci for identifying Carlson's clientele as human beings.

Ramos

about 12 years ago

If Carlson is a predator, he's the first predator I've ever seen whose prey cheers him on from across the street.

I appreciate Northern Girl's candor in stating that her problem is with people doing drugs "in public." Get them out of sight, away from Northern Girl's delicate retinas, and voila! Problem solved.

blind

about 12 years ago

He is still a predator on the system, and the city.  His clients still cause huge problems, in part because of what he provides and the culture around the store.  At the same time, Carlson and his clientele remain human beings.  As an observer, who has much less at stake in this conversation than the neighboring businesses, and landowners, the city and county administration, the hospitals, the families, and many others, nonetheless I am astonished at how Carlson and his patrons are systematically de-humanized and turned into boogeymen in both official discourse and casual conversation.  Condescension to them is another issue, which would have to be addressed after the recognition of Carlson and his clientele as human beings.  But first, the de-humanization of them is astonishing - and frankly another example of why this is such a sad situation.  End of contribution and participation in this thread.

adam

about 12 years ago

Vice magazine: Bath Salts in the Wound.

jessige

about 12 years ago

I pity Carlson's clientele and I wish that the answer to baci's question about helping them and the children affected by this activity were yes.

I detest Carlson as an exploiter of the defenseless.  If the prosecutor's statement that Carlson makes $480K per month selling this poison is true, then I also detest him as a greedy, ruthless profitmonger.

I would say not that the customers and Carlson are subhuman.  Rather, they are maybe the most human of us all.  I hope all receive the justice they deserve.

in.dog.neato

about 12 years ago

Ramos, isn't Stockholm syndrome the condition where captives begin to identify and feel empathy toward their captors?

The way Carlson makes it sound, it's our fault he has to sell this stuff on accounts we haven't made pot legal.

That sounds like extortion.

Ramos

about 12 years ago

The demonization and scapegoating of the lower class in Duluth is appalling.

In.dog, I have never heard Carlson say that he has to sell synthetics. I have heard him say -- most recently in today's paper -- that if pot were legal, he'd get rid of all his synthetics.

So there you are: A nice, proactive solution to the problem that is not even considered by the mob of cops and decent Duluthians who hate Carlson. What if all the money and resources being poured into punishing Carlson were directed to lobbying for legalization?

But no. Faced with a perceived threat from a guy who doesn't care what society thinks, Duluth says KILL! KILL! KILL!

Ramos

about 12 years ago

How long has Carlson been selling these extremely dangerous substances now -- three or four years? You'd think the bodies would be piled up like cordwood on the sidewalk every morning.

When the DNT ran its investigative series on methadone and opiate abuse, which actually has killed people in the Northland, I didn't notice any mobs howling for the blood of doctors who over-prescribe the shit.

Every time drunk drivers kills themselves or others, which is practically a monthly occurrence, I don't see the cops raiding liquor stores.

When a guy huffed cleaning fluid and ran over a woman in West Duluth last year, paralyzing her, I didn't see a big push to outlaw cleaning fluid.

Imagine if synthetic drugs were responsible for these tragedies. Imagine the wailing and lamentation that would take place. Imagine the punishment that would be demanded.

The double standard in Duluth is thick enough to choke on.

B-man

about 12 years ago

If the people attracted to the LPOE are bothering you and your sense of morality, please remember that closing the store will not delete those people form the human equation in this city. 

The dissonance you feel when you see people acting in a way YOU believe is wrong is what psychologists call the False Consensus effect.

"Description

We tend to overestimate how the degree to which our own behavior, attitudes, beliefs, and so on are shared by other people.

This may be because our friends and people we spend time with are indeed like us, and we use the Availability Heuristic to deduce that many other people are similar (our own beliefs, etc. are also very available). When there is limited information on which to base a good estimate, then what we believe is a fair alternative to a wild guess. We will use false consensus more when we attribute our own behavior to external factors as these are the same factors which presumed to affect others. False consensus also helps reinforce my own motivations.

False consensus is stronger when:

    The behavior is seen to come from strong situational factors.
    The matter at hand is seen as being important to the person.
    When we are largely sure we are correct."

http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/false_consensus.htm

please keep this effect in mind when judging others actions.

p.s. Jim Carlson is an ass.

baci

about 12 years ago

Ramos, back from vacation? Or was it rehab? Please tell me you're going to uncork another year long crybaby, footstomping, holding-of-your-breath until we all celebrate Carlson for the patriot that history will remember him to be. Please, please? I miss the bile feeling in my throat when you inform us that Carlson is a shining American, cloaked in the flag, defending our rights to abuse whatever substance some offshore chemists can cook up that's one molecule from illegal. I miss your staunch defense of LPOE's daycare program where you can park your kid's stroller under the "Guns Allowed" sign while you shop in convenience for the synth-dejour ... or wait, I have a better idea, go back to writing your novel. I, for one, can't wait to read "All work and no play makes Ramos a dull boy." When it hits the shelves. You'll find it at LPOE, right next to the dildos.

Ramos

about 12 years ago

When my novel hits the shelves, you'll know it, young man. Believe me.

Claire

about 12 years ago

I just don't want my teenage daughter to be harassed by the people standing outside LPOE when she walks down the street.

baci

about 12 years ago

Seriously, I can't wait. Let me cast the screen adaptation.

Let's get the bit parts out of the way. We've already established that Adam is Don Knotts and I'm played by Victoria Jackson. Yet to be cast, Ramos, Carlson (of course) and Don Ness.

Paul Lundgren

about 12 years ago

It's pretty easy to agree or disagree with Carlson's defenders and detractors, and resort to name calling and belittling, but here is what I think about the matter:

Jim Carlson should have a right to sell bath salts or pipe cleaners as much as Menards has a right to sell paint thinner. However, when Carlson states in the media, as he has repeatedly, that his customers believe there are health benefits to using his products as drugs and/or that he will stop selling these items when marijuana is legalized, his store should be immediately shut down. Those statements are clear admissions of selling those products for purposes clearly not approved by the FDA.

Whether it's enough of an offense to put him in jail seems like a matter for debate, but the case for closing his store seems fairly clear to me.

The troublesome social problem, of course, is that there are legions of people who feel that synthetic drugs improve rather than reduce the quality of their lives. It might be physical pain they are trying to relieve, or it might be stress brought on by economic barriers or traumatic past events. No matter what the cause is, there are opportunities to help those people that we seem to be missing because it's easier to call them lowlifes and move on with the important things the rest of us have to do, like engaging in commerce and goofing off on a computer.

B-man

about 12 years ago

@Claire  I understand your concern, why should YOUR children be exposed to things YOU do not agree with. (False Consensus Effect)What a challenge it must be to shelter your children from reality.

Since you are against harassment, are you saying the media and public opinion should stop harassing the chemically dependent people at LPOE? Or are you just concerned with you and your family?

Claire

about 12 years ago

B-Man, I think anyone walking down the street minding their own business should not have to worry about being harassed by loiterers who crowd both sides of the sidewalk, as is always the case at LPOE. My attitude is don't mess with me, I won't mess with you. Even if you are dumb enough to put synthetic drugs into your body.

andrew

about 12 years ago

If Jim Carlson was a street level independent drug dealer he would have been arrested, forced into accepting a plea bargain, and probably already be done serving his time.  Since he is a business owner with some money to pay an effective lawyer, he has been able to hold out longer but ultimately will be thrown in jail regardless of the legality of his actions.  You can't fight city hall, as the saying goes.  

If LPOE were a corporation it probably would have received a citation and a fine. If LPOE were a big corporation it would have received some JOBZ tax breaks and Duluth civil officials would be begging it to stay. If LPOE was a multi-national corporation it would have been invited to help write the synthetic drug legislation and it would still be legal.

not there

about 12 years ago

So my post get's nuked for commenting that a number of individuals here think that Carlson and his patrons should be brought home to Mom, fed, given an allowance and coddled?  If some feel this way I suggest that they contribute more to the fed and state gov's for services.  Personally, I am more than willing to help those in need but I expect them to move forward.

B-man

about 12 years ago

"I am more than willing to help those in need but I expect" ...

You expect people to act like you. Best of luck with that.  

The focus of the legal action should be on reducing the availability of synthetic drugs, not condemning people who make different choices than you.

not there

about 12 years ago

Wrong BMan.  Thanks for cutting off the quote and making it work for your purposes. The line I wrote reads 'I expect them to move forward.'
I would hope (expect) that they take responsibility for themselves and become productive, contributing members of society - or don't you believe in society?

B-man

about 12 years ago

The reason the quote is cut off is to illustrate that whatever comes next is irrelevant.

Hoping or expecting others to act like you is not reasonable.  

I agree with you, and I as well would hope they can overcome the barriers they have. I am asking people to resist judgement based only on the fact they act differently than you do.

in.dog.neato

about 12 years ago

Ramos, you are correct. He didn't say that. It's the inference that I was getting at.

Claire, if you don't want your daughter to be exposed to people you don't like...you may as well lock her in the basement. That attitude is no better than the fundies that homeschool their children because they don't like the secular curriculum that is taught in public school. In any case it leaves people unprepared to deal with life outside your little box.

Danny

about 12 years ago

I seem to recall certain people saying that part of the reason that Todd Fedora lost his reelection on the council was because he was wasting his time and making a big issue out of Jim Carlson and the LPOE's sale of bath salts.  It's pretty funny how those same, certain people now are also complaining about Jim Carlson and the LPOE's sale of bath salts.

not there

about 12 years ago

Wrong B-Guy.  Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

Cutting quotes or using sound bites without context does not reflect the thoughts/comments of the author.  That's what Fox News does - maybe you could get a job there.  

Don't put words in my mouth; I do not need you to interpret any straight forward comments that I have posted.

Claire

about 12 years ago

In.dog.neato, it's not a matter of whether or not I am exposing my child to people I like or dislike. What concerns me as a taxpaying citizen is that I -- and by extension, my daughter -- should be able to walk down the street, minding our own business, and not be harassed. If you were the person harassing me or mine as I or we walked down the street, well, I'd give you shit too.

TimK

about 12 years ago

Carlson was arrested again today by US Marshals. Apparently the DPD recovered a gun in last Friday's raid. This was a violation of his release agreement from the previous federal indictment.  He now must appear before a US magistrate who will determine whether or not he can be held until the federal case against him is heard.

in.dog.neato

about 12 years ago

And you don't think these victims don't pay taxes? They're getting their money from somewhere, right? And what about Carlson himself? How much is he putting into the city and stage coffers on a daily basis through sales taxes from the stuff he sells. 

Come on, we aren't that naive, and there are other places for a juvenile to go in this city.

in.dog.neato

about 12 years ago

*state* coffers. Sorry.

And with the amount of attention that the LPOE is getting lately, doesn't it make sense that its patrons might be on a level of behavior that is slightly above Neanderthal, given the amount of police presence on the block?

Seriously, you get more harassment from the alkies in lake place, where the DPD aren't always watching.

wildgoose

about 12 years ago

I don't know everyone on here but I do know many of you and I hope that these arguments are just somewhat impassioned debate and not actual vilification of the person making statements.

For example, Baci, I think that you really will like John's novel. And Danny, I never heard that Fedora was ousted because he was hard on Carlson's synthetic drug sales. Fedora was ousted because he was too conservative even for his conservative (by Duluth standards) district. And his opponent campaigned hard, to win. Maybe even with a little help from one of Baci's relatives (I don't fully recall).

This is just a big small town. And we're all people here. So let's not be getting so mean with one another in the comments here, folks. Although I've never done much shopping there, I even liked Jim Carlson once upon a time for his colorful personality before all of this synthetic drug sales peaked. HBH is right, this is most likely not a business thing for him anymore. It is public theater, he's a prisoner of his own ego. And it's possibly a little bit about his libertarian crusade against the Drug War. And most of us begrudgingly agree with him about that, at least on the question of pot.

On a recent trip to the ER I ran into a former acquaintance/business associate who was clearly suffering very badly from what he said were bath salts. I believe that drug is essentially powdered evil and that Jim is a total villain for selling it and he is simply wrong, wrong, wrong on that issue.

As for the blight factor, there is brokenness everywhere. LPOE probably should be shut down, but that is not going to solve the problem, at best it will simply remove it from view.

Barrett Chase

about 12 years ago

Two honest questions:

1) Danny: When you refer to "those same, certain people," are you literally referring to specific individuals (e.g. Bob, Fred, Charlie) or more generally to a group of people with mostly similar beliefs (e.g. Liberals, Presbyterians)? Your statement is valid if it's the former, but completely invalid if it's the latter. Individuals within groups vary in their opinions and often disagree with each other.

2) Wildgoose: Even though we can't solve the problem, do you think that removal of synthetic drugs from availability (if possible) will improve the lives of a few of these drug users and/or prevent others from going down that road in the future? Sure illegal drugs are available, and there are a lot of harmful illegal drugs, but don't most people agree that pot at least is healthier than synthetics?

Danny

about 12 years ago

Specific individuals.  They seem to flip out when they are mentioned by name.

And when it comes to the common argument for the city gov'ment being so involved in trying to stop the red menace that is Jim Carlson "I can't walk down the street without being harassed."  Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't harassing someone walking down the street illegal before this whole bath salt business?

Also ... does anyone else remember the mayor taking a stand against new loitering laws back when he was on the council?

Claire

about 12 years ago

In.dog.neato, just because someone pays taxes doesn't give them license to do anything they want on a public sidewalk.

Danny

about 12 years ago

Let me start this comment with the caveat that I think all of those people hanging around down there are obnoxious and I'm never thrilled when my wife heads down to the antique store without me.  Whenever I'm down there I don't get bothered at all, but could be more due to the fact that I'm a big 6'3" monster.

Regardless, we're in the year 2013.  I liken the claims of constant harassment from these dirtbags to the UFO/Bigfoot theories.  Everyone today has a little video camera in their pocket these days.  Why isn't there lots footage all over the place taken by citizens being harassed by the LPOE patrons if it's such a common occurrence?

B-man

about 12 years ago

@not there

Can you ratchet down your defensiveness for a moment?  

I was not putting words into your mouth, I was using your words to illustrate the point that "We tend to overestimate how the degree to which our own behavior, attitudes, beliefs, and so on are shared by other people."  

In your statement "I am more than willing to help those in need but I expect them to move forward."  Your expectation is that they will act like you would, and "move forward" (forward BTW is a subjective term that means different things to different people)so if people are not moving forward you are unwilling to help them.  

Please enlighten us with your definition of "moving forward"

My point in every post on this thread is to illustrate a psychological effect that we live with, and if left unchecked can lead to things like class-ism, racism, ageism, and all other types of discrimination.  

Jim Carlson is an attention seeking egotist and is fair game for criticism. He is an individual. The customers that you do not know but are grouping together as unworthy of empathy because they do not act like you is the war cry of the ruling class. 

I am guessing you do not support the Un-Fair campaign, are white, male, and have conservative values. I can still respect you as a person even if you make different choices for different reasons than I would.

Best of luck "moving forward."

http://unfaircampaign.org/

BadCat!

about 12 years ago

I was under the impression that Carlson was selling "incense" and not "bath salts" (also heard that though both could be bad for you, bath salts are the worse of the two).
Or am I just mixing up Bed, Bath, and Beyond drug euphemisms?

BadCat!

about 12 years ago

I'm sure Danny is as shocked as I am when I say this, but I agree with him. A lot of the problem LPOE behavior is already illegal (harassment, public intoxication, child endangerment, etc.). Though the current law says Carlson can still sell the spice, that doesn't prevent the PD from enforcing existing laws.

Claire

about 12 years ago

Pretty sure he said on TV the other night that he sells "bath salts" and that the controlled substance he's been selling is "pipe cleaner."

baci

about 12 years ago

Wildegoose, admonishment accepted. Ramos is a good writer, I give him points for persistence alone. Also, props for trying to cool everyone's jets. Consider mine throttled back. Sorry for the defaming Ramos. This whole topic riles me up, I'm sure you can understand.

not there

about 12 years ago

B Guy, I did define what I meant by 'moving forward'; all you had to do was read my post.

'moving forward' = 'becoming a productive, contributing member of society'.

If you have a solution for those patrons of LPOE then I would suggest that you act on it. I'm sure society improve. We are all part of a society and every society has laws; I don't like all of them but I'm still obligated to follow them or suffer the consequences.

You are 'guessing'; you do not know anything about me.  My views on issues run from liberal to semiconservative, but I'm not on the extremes of either.

If you are concerned about class struggles perhaps you should look at those of the middle class.  Soon there will be those with wealth and those in need of government assistance.

By the way, I'm 'guessing'from your avatar that you are a white male.But I could be incorrect.

Danny

about 12 years ago

I just want to get this straight.  A guy going by the name "not there" attempted humor by making fun of a guy named "B-Man" by calling him "B Guy"?

not there

about 12 years ago

I coulda gone with B Boy.

B-man

about 12 years ago

@not there- your statement "a productive, contributing member of society" is still subjective language.  What do you mean by this statement?

As far as improving society (yes I believe in society, but maybe not your definition of it) I work on it every day. I have been working at service orientated non-profits for the last 12 years dealing with human issues.

"I did define what I meant by 'moving forward'; all you had to do was read my post." Well I re-read it, you must be mistaken in your assertion that you stated the definition, please restate it here. (and use objective language please)

I never mentioned laws, not sure what that statement is about, could you elaborate?

Well you got me on the one point, I was guessing about you, that seemed obvious due to the fact I started the statement with "I am guessing" 

Yes I am white,male,married, middle class and college educated, and I understand how those factors effect my outlook on the world.

I am not trying to argue with you, just have a conversation about your reaction to this situation.  

Removing the LPOE will not remove "those people" from Duluth.

BTW "those people" is a pejorative term that we should avoid using.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorative

not there

about 12 years ago

Thanks for defining 'pejorative'  I had not gotten to that in my ESL class.

not there

about 12 years ago

B Man, I would like to continue this but I need to attend to some other matters.

wildgoose

about 12 years ago

Barrett I do think the community would be better off without synthetic drug sales, if that is possible.  

I'd prefer to see marijuana legalized though which would cut the legs out from under synthetics.  I don't think pot is harmless I just think it should be legalized.

edgeways

about 12 years ago

[img]http://www.perfectduluthday.com/wp-content/uploads/comments/SaB.jpg[/img]

We are clearly overlooking the "Which Muppet is..." question.
Mr. Carlson: Junior Gorg

Zedhead

about 12 years ago

Is funny how some try to justify "those people" as victims. (Typical liberal outlook, I'd guess.) 

"Those people" made a choice to use/abuse this crap. They make a choice every day that they are going to use. 

I guess that the way I deal with a problem is different than "those peoples" way. When I face a problem, my first thought is not to get high, and run away from it.

vicarious

about 12 years ago

Incoherent gobbedlygook blaming the Typical Liberals not to mention potholes and stuff. If it were up to me, I'd just legalize the legality of the law, right? Damn conservative fascists.

in.dog.neato

about 12 years ago

Blame the librils...that's the way...

Carlton's got himself a legit business. Thought a good conservative loves a good business. 

It ain't the Librium, zed.

It's free market capitalism.

B-man

about 12 years ago

@ Zedhead- If there are no victims, why are so many people mad at Carlson?

Zedhead

about 12 years ago

Because Lefties always look for someone to blame.

Take Sandy Hook. They blame semi automatic "assault weapons" when one was not even fired.

in.dog.neato

about 12 years ago

So scapegoating teachers, unions, welfare recipients and retirees for the Great Recession when it was actually JP Morgan, CitiBank and BushCo was exactly what?

Right. Blaming someone else.

Personal responsibility is the rule til you have to own your OWN mistakes, right Zed?

Zedhead

about 12 years ago

Scape goating is political move to protect yourself, or others. 

Blaming is an emotional decision to try to justify something.

Although I am just as disgusted as anyone about Jim's business selling this crap, blaming him is not the answer. Blaming Jim for the actions of his clientele isn't right either. People make a decision to act like idiots. Jim doesn't force people to buy this crap. 

There must be a way for the Politicians to word the law so that these substances can be kept out of peoples hands?

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