"The previous theater operators of the NorShor in the past will tell you the major detriment to having a successful operation is the condition of the building - whether a leaking roof, lack of fire suppression, or other deferred maintenance were distractions to the operation of the building"

Yes.  Completely true in my case. Although I was only there for less than a year I think we would have had a small profit if the building had been up to code and if it was energy efficient.  The other huge problem was being undercapitalized but we did ok with sales anyway, the problem was that the building, structural and regulatory problems ate up all of the sales and then some.  With a stable management team at the helm, access to a decent operating budget and most importantly, in an appropriately renovated building it will be sustainable if not profitable.  I just wish this would have happened five years ago when I was there or 10 years ago when Rick Boo was.

When I was last in Fargo... I visited the theater that Mike writes about... and I dreamt of the day when our theater would become so grand... When I read the press... I once again thought of Fargo. These are very interesting and exciting times to be part of Duluth...

I like Don's idea of a public easement through the old Muffler Bldg. as another connection between Lake Place Park and Old Downtown. 

That park has been horribly maintained and poorly policed but I walked through there last weekend and was surprised at the number of people using it for legit purposes. Hopefully that's not just due to the ripped up Lakewalk. 

Getting tourists to venture into Old Downtown will ensure its success.

Thanks for your efforts Mayor. I do hope that this is the catalyst for additional development of the Superior Street corridor. Would be nice to get the touristas to move over the highway to see what downtown offers.

I respectfully disagree with you however in that a Chipotle downtown (or in Duluth for that matter) is not needed. A local (read:non-chain) restaurant would be ideal. If you want to bring in a grubby chain, take a look at Wahoo Fish Tacos!

what about Noodle & Company then? mmm... noodles....

If only the Duluth News Tribune discussion was so calm and thoughtful as the discussion at Perfect Duluth Day!  Many of the DNT posters seem really upset about spending 2.6 million on this instead of roads (or whatever the poster thinks it should have been spent on).  Check out the DNT posts at http://bit.ly/9Q1qoH

Speaking as a former Duluthian and current Minneapolitan, this is exactly the kind of thing that will get me up North more often, spending my godless big city money in Duluth. I used to LOVE that place -- the Black Eyed Snakes shows, the happy hour, the movies with couches... can't wait!

There's nothing BUT good that would come from this incentive.  Don't get me wrong; the "lady dancer" thing didn't ruin the area, but strategically, that building could be put to better use.

Tonight, a couple of my passengers asked if anything exciting had happened in Duluth in the past week. When I told them about the Norshor they squealed with delight. Literally.

In some ways this makes me want to shout hooray - but in others it makes me want to scream with anguish.

How is it possible that after the last 10 years our city government does not know that real estate is not the way to go when it comes to economic stimulation?!? Moreover, if the city subsidizes a new downtown restaurant, another one will fall by the wayside.  The eating pool is limited.

Can we please - now that Eric has agreed to move forward - let private capital make this move!!!??? If government wants to do something - let it tend to people's basic needs - health care, child care, education. Let enterprise take care of development.

And if you're gonna flame me about this - know that A&L has full-time staff devoted to getting TIF money and other concessions from the government entities.

Since the beautiful venue at Bayfront isn't properly utilized to bring in "bigger name" bands, I look forward to seeing the Norshor outfitted to be a place where a band would love to come to Duluth. Sure, Luce and the Rex put on some good shows but neither are large enough to accomadate bands like The Black Keys or Fleet Foxes. "Build it and they will come."

Carla's post said:
 "Can we please - now that Eric has agreed to move forward - let private capital make this move!!!??? If government wants to do something - let it tend to people's basic needs - health care, child care, education. Let enterprise take care of development."

I completely agree with Carla on this.  

This situation seems a bit like the whole mortgage fiasco in the way that overpriced real estate was sold to buyers who did not have the means to afford it.  Will these development funds pay for the taxes for the next twenty years?  For the insurance?  For the salary of the long-term manager?  And who in the city has time to manage the managers?   

When I look at the zoo and the aquarium that is evidence for me (a Duluth newcomer) that the city should not venture into any other businesses.  I certainly do not know these details but I can see all the emotion involved in restoring an old building, etc and that is great.  But like the bank saying we can afford a $2.6 million dollar house, there is more to owning and managing a property than just buying it on emotional appeal.  Let's really dig beneath the surface and make all the details public first, that  would make it easier for me to jump on a renovation band wagon.  Starting with a business plan would be good.

Have you ever seen "It's a Wonderful Life"?  We see what the city would be like if private enterprise took over (it becomes Pottersville).  As in the movie, there would be a lot of strip clubs, drugs, alcohol, and gambling in Duluth with minimal government and control by private enterprise, since that is what makes the most money for private enterprise.  

Fargo is a good example of a city where the government development of downtown made the community stronger.  Government should provide for basic needs - health care, child care, education - and for any other communal good that the people want.  Most Duluthians want more than a minimalist government, and so there are democratic reasons for the government to do more than the minimum.  Government can do good beyond the minimum, and I think "It's a Wonderful Life" gives us a sense for what that is.  We want Bedford Falls, not Pottersville.

And an alley runs behind it...

Don't forget the 'alley behind' could just be another form of development. 

I had a friend, a mad poet named A.P. Bradford who plastered his alley poems on the backs of old brick downtown buildings in  Somewhere, U.S.A. 

City fathers putting out the garbage one fine day (they do that sometimes,eh?), spied the back-wall coloratura in chalk and bright pastels like a sunset bursting in verse, maybe ... so building owners opened their back doors and turned sooty, neglected basement space into a second round of shop connections ... cobblestone corridors became places for walking and talking and riding bikes and pushcart wares etc.

One such alley that did develop in the 1960s or 70s in good ol' St Paul, was "Alley 29" complete with a courtyard water fountain, Fujia Cafe - Classic Japanese cuisine ... plus an art school looking over from their balcony  plus a well stocked bookstore and flowers and pots everywhere ... yup one block developed from both sides now could be quite a gem..

Case in point:

Fargo Renaissance? Oh yah, oh yah
Smart hotels, unique boutiques, teeming downtown streets -- Wood-Chip Marge would be totally impressed

I think vision is important and as the mayor said, there is risk in everything, but to me this is a no-brainer people.

@Carla

To quote -- not exactly, actually paraphrasing -- the CEO of McDonald's once asked a bunch of students, "What is McDonald's in the business of."

A student answered, "Well, food, of course."  "Wrong!" he responded.  "We're in the business of real estate."

You can take this idea one step further.  Forgive me Paul and Barrett and others for saying this. PDD vies for journal real estate, as an example.

Please, read Don Ness' reply in the DNT Buzz.  Ness clears up a lot of misinformation about this that I've read lately...

http://bit.ly/aXSjDl

This is very quickly turning into an ugly "Us Vs. Them" situation.

This is a business deal,  and it isn't just between DEDA and Mr. Ringsred.  Mayor Ness, in his previous post, alluded to other business owners who have chatted with him about this project.  It must be nice to buy a historic commercial property and get all kinds of taxpayers money to fix it up through the city.

Just what Duluth needs, another black hole for the tax payers 
to pay for.  I am sure when the bill comes Rod and Tim will not
be around. 

Let's have a moment of silence for the end of Donny's career.

Armory or NorShor?

Seriously.  Why?  The city jumping into more business, something they shouldn't be involved in.  Ringsred should have put a for sale sign in the window, and the highest payer could have had the building.  This will end up like the infamous Tech Village, Fish Tank on the lake, and the Herbie Parking ramp fiasco.  A perfect day in Duluth will be when all the lights are finally shut off.  This city is dead.

"The City Is Dead!"

Dude, I've been hearing this "sky is falling" bullshit for going on ten years (as long as I've been living here). Where? When? Seriously?

Much to the contrary, Duluth just keeps getting better and better, and as a denizen of the later days of the old NorShor under Boo, I'm excited that my kids'll have a similar place and chance to haunt, rather than looking at a dilapidated old building with "FOR SALE" in the window.

Can someone tell me how the city is getting better without any business expansion, and no tax base expansion.  The city is expanding with non-profits, which, alas, do not pay taxes.  The city still has an unfunded liability of 250 million.  Donny was complaining a few months back when Pawlenty was cutting LGA, but when Pawlenty came out and said Duluth has got more and more LGA, Donny hasn't made any public comments about LGA.   Private business should be investing in the city, and not using the tax payers money.  When Duluth gives money to the aquarium, and spends money on the NorShor, this is a bail-out on a smaller scale.

Of course, people always have reasons to spend the city's millions. I would just like everyone to acknowledge that the dynamic driving this project is EXACTLY THE SAME as the dynamic that drives every other project.

Six days after a multi-million dollar project is announced, and without seeing any further information, the community and council are poised to approve it. This seems idiotic to me.

This is why the city's debt load always grows and never shrinks.

"I have been writing about the pitfalls of unfounded optimism for years." -- Yeah! Damn that horrible optimism ... it ruins my finely crafted sense of abysmal desperation.

Perhaps unfunded optimism is more appropriate.  I don't want to come off as a nattering nabob of negativism because I really want to see this a success.  However, the money issue really unsettles me a bit.  I don't necessarily understand the "this money can't be used for schools or roads" argument since I feel they are as vital to economic development as a vibrant cultural center.  The future cost of this also seems overly vague to me.  How much and how will we pay for it are legitimate questions that should be asked.  And if people ask them in a respectful way they should not be criticized for it.