It’s 1773.

duluthtea-192

I spied the tea party today in Duluth. Actual tea was put into the harbor, loose and packet form. My question is: What public employee is gonna clean it up without people paying taxes anymore? I’d post a few pics but I’m not finding the upload button. Help?

53 Comments

Tim K

about 16 years ago

99% of those in attendance have no idea who is actually behind these "spontaneous" protests.
http://www.commondreams.org/further/2009/04/15

cando

about 16 years ago

the twin cities evening news coverage of the "protest" at the state capital tonight was hilarious. They were basically making fun of them and pointing out how hypocritical their argument was. it was great.

edgeways

about 16 years ago

nearest I can understand is:
1. It is an excuse for mostly right-of-center to vent whatever frustrations they feel about the recent elections and the troubled economic times but dress it up under the nebulous guise of taxes/deficit spending.
2. It was heavily pre-promoted by the national Fox channel, which hardly makes it spontaneous.
3. In general it is organized by GOP operatives.
4. Ron Paul people are pissed at the co-opting
5. Rick Perry (Gov-TX) in address the tea-baggers is talking all manner of bullshit about TX possibly seceding due to the federal government's heavy hand (never mind the emergency disaster relief being sought by TX)
6. They don't like being called tea-baggers.
7. The DNT editorial a day or two back was promoting tea-bagging, who knew a Fargo based paper had the finger on the pulse of Duluth so well.. oh wait.

baci

about 16 years ago

I say an incremental consumption tax based on the frivolity of the luxury item. Of course I'd be head of the Ministry of Frivolity Testing.

dbb

about 16 years ago

Baci, wouldn't that just be a license for outrageous hedonism?  Where do I sign up?

In all seriousness, I applaud those who went down to speak their minds.  I don't understand how anyone can fail to be concerned about the rate that the government is spending money.

baci

about 16 years ago

And the necon driven orgy of cooperate welfare and fiscal anti-reason we have just been through wasn't "outrageous hedonism"? Come on, the tea-baggers are hand puppets of Fox news. We HAVE to spend $$ on infrastructure.

chadp

about 16 years ago

Littering, especially in the Lake, makes me irrationally angry and want to fight!

Some group wanted to dump 10^6 tea bags in DC and was disallowed for a lack of a proper permit.  That made me smile a bit.

udarnik

about 16 years ago

I kinda wish I had gone down there to yell "Get a job!"  You know, just for fun.

spy1

about 16 years ago

I was asked to give the age of the crowd. When looking around, I said I bet there's no one, aside from the smallest of kids, under age 35. Maybe 40-50. It was a retirement fest, until later, when some College GOPers showed. It was amazing how these long quotations would find themselves on signs at the rally. As in plural. How did four people have the same idea about quoting Lenin. Hmmmm.

Patsy

about 16 years ago

The sad part about the whole tea bag event is that the right wing locals who promoted this as an anti government spending rally, don't seem to realize it was a national effort to protest the Obama administration's attempt to fix what the previous administration left behind.  Remember, many of these people are the same group who called the war protesters unAmerican.  They blame the banks for many of our current problems, and rightly so, but these are people who oppose government oversight in to business, so supported the deregulation of the banking industry which allowed for sub prime, loose credit, and the eventual crash.  You can't have it both ways; either you oppose spending all the time, regardless of which party wins an election or you don't.  And, you either want oversight to prevent greed from running us in to the ground, or you don't.  The problem with this protest is that it's all about Obama; not about America.

c-freak

about 16 years ago

i spied for a bit early on then split & parked a shit-load of them in the lot. one guy thanked me for what i was doing. (?) lots of huge suv's. saw some pathetic signs. i gave the wooo devil horn's to some woman with an anti - socialist flag who told me i was too lazy to work. while i was working. the dummy thought i was a rummy.

Calk

about 16 years ago

Call me crazy, but I just don't understand why people would protest Obama's stimulus plan, which, according to Moody's Economy.com via the fine report by Andy Greder in today's DNT, will lower the unemployment rate within a year and save or create 91,000 jobs in Minnesota alone. I'm glad I didn't get too close to the protest yesterday, b/c the people in the DNT's front page above the fold photo did not look like our region's finest. And it pisses me off they'd litter the Harbor like that! Not surprising, however.

spy1

about 16 years ago

Frankly, I got the feeling there, as someone with a similar biracial background as Obama, that the government was OK until someone who doesn't look like them got to the helm. These protests and continuing GOP attacks are simple code for that uneasiness in people. Seen it all my life living in Minnesota. I don't think it's outright in most, but the underlying boost to put them out there. It's tough to hear about the govt. overspending when personal credit owed by all of us is equal to the US GDP. Only time it's been like that is 1929. Many of the signs and talk Wednesday were aimed at so-called deadbeats: "Why am I paying your mortgage?" or "Everyone should have a job, it's the American way!" We are fighting ourselves, our habits and our underlying clouded thoughts about a multicultural society. Got to own up and sort those feelings first. Then get to work on how it can all work better for all of us.

davids

about 16 years ago

WARNING:
I'm about to threadjack!

C-Freak, I just noticed, through serendipity, where your Gravatar comes from--today's NY Times, which is sitting on the table as I am checking in on PDD--has a feature on Grey Gardens, and when you check out the web story and enriched content, you get images from the Maysles brothers' Grey Gardens documentary that profiled Edith Bouvier Beale, known as Big Edie, and her namesake daughter, who was called Little Edie. 

There I see your Gravatar photo, though in black and white, not color as you have it.

Here's the NY Times link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/garden/16greygardens.html?_r=1

Cool Gravatar choice!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion thread about Republican protestors who hide the true motives behind their exercising the freedom of speech rights that other Republicans in the recent past wanted to deny to propeace protestors.

c-freak

about 16 years ago

i'm a big fan of both edie's.

lindsey

about 16 years ago

Isn't it possible that a person doesn't like the president or the choices of the government and not be a racist?

RV

about 16 years ago

Argh!  Look at all that litter.  I mean, did anyone see them throw the cardboard box into the harbor?  The empty, floating one with "TEA" scratched into its side?  I'm all for protests and understand the symbolism, but - shit - keep your trash out of my lake, son.

c-freak

about 16 years ago

mmmmwwwwaaaaaahhhhh.
http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_105110929.html?start:int=0

St.G

about 16 years ago

Pretty much the people with the racist signs at these rallies are the only ones being called racist. (Somebody should update the FOX News talking heads on this fact so they can tell you all to drop this tired argument.)

Now that it's over, we should potato sack the teabaggers.

lojasmo

about 16 years ago

It is amazingly funny that:

1) all these protests are being held on public/civic property.
2) a vast majoity of the teabaggers will be getting a tax CUT from Obama
3) Where were these jokers when Bush doubled the national debt?

lindsey

about 16 years ago

I was just responding to what spy1 said:  "Frankly, I got the feeling there, as someone with a similar biracial background as Obama, that the government was OK until someone who doesn't look like them got to the helm."  It isn't some "tired argument" that I got from Fox News, I can think for myself thank you.  I just wanted to point out that some people don't agree with the way the government is going and are automatically labeled a racist.  I find that unfair, I can disagree with you and not hate entire race.

Dave

about 16 years ago

To be fair, the Mall in D.C. looked A LOT worse on innauguration day than the few tea bags on the harbor, but I get the irony.

The Big E

about 16 years ago

For all the DNT's embarrassing cheerleading, the photo on the front page today was somewhat hilarious.

edgeways

about 16 years ago

lindsey, I think the main thrust of your point is valid, but there are some factors here and there that suggest that plenty involved in this do have some racial squeamishness, at best, and outright hostility in some instances. The sheer level of guns purchased nationally has increased alarmingly directly after the election (to the point where there is actually an ammunition shortage currently), this didn't happen after Clinton despite the same "taking your guns away" BS that got spread then. Also consider the near monolithic whiteness of this national protest, I saw a grand total of one person of color in all the coverage of the different cities, it was like watching the GOP convention fer christsakes, plenty of signage with racial overtones in different areas. 

This whole national teabagging event wasn't really about any single thing, if you go from place to place and look at who showed up and what their signs said, it runs the gambit from worrying about the deficit, to directly equating Obama to Hitler (for some undefined reason). I think it is pretty incontrovertible that as a whole it just was an excuse for a GOP wankfest which some serious people got roped into as well.

If I was truly worried about the deficit I wouldn't have anything to do with the people who ran this, they are a bunch of scared people making decisions based out of fear, which makes any of their many, sometimes irrational, arguments about why Obama sucks pretty suspect. I honestly think there is room for plenty of debate on deficit spending, but the tea baggers bring very little to that table.

lindsey

about 16 years ago

edgeways, it seems wrong to me that people are getting lumped together and being called racist just because they are  participating in an event to express their frustration in the way government is being run because it just so happens to have a certain amount of people also participating that are in fact racist.  That could be said of many groups.  And I guess I'm also frustrated that if I mention that I don't agree with what is happening in the government people just assume it is because I'm a racist or because they have a notion that all people who disagree have some kind of hidden agenda.  

Also (sorry if this is nitpicking) can it be shown that Obama being elected is the causation of the increase in gun sales?  There very well could be an alternative explanation that we are missing out on because it is assumed the election of Obama is the cause of the increase.

edgeways

about 16 years ago

lindsey, I understand what you are saying. But, at some point you have to evaluate the group you associate with to get your message across. Especially if the basic organization of the group comes from dodgy sources. 

As to the gun issue, yeah it's pretty much tied to the recent election. Granted there are no peer reviewed double-blind studies to conform this, but the timing, demographics, and massive anecdotal evidence all point in the same direction without any counter theories being put forth. Add that to the secret service reporting massive recruitment to organizations such as the KKK and white supremacy groups across the board and, while not iron-clad, is the most viable hypothesis out there. 

I don't know you, and as such I can't make any evaluation as to if you are racist or not, I would assume not. But, as unfair as it is, the loudest and most visible members of any given group tend to define it and with the tea bagging groups those individuals come across as pretty clueless, often times with racial undertones.

It really is up to you how to get your message across, speaking for myself, I think aligning with these folks is not a particularly good way to do it.

Burlesque

about 16 years ago

Lindsey, I thank you. Your voice of reason is mightily welcome.

 The rest of you are boring me to death. God your left-right paradigm is unruly. Can't you fell its tactile dissatisfaction. It's attempts to jump clean from your fool grip? No? No.

The idea repeated above, that this merely a cynical "vast right-wing conspiracy" while furthermore OBVIATING the possibility people could actually be dissatisfied with the financial ministrations of the Obama administration, is FUCKING BANANAS. 

I wish I had time to rebut many of the above inanities, but don't fret, I hope to return this evening. In the meantime, I leave you in the capable hands of Lindsey. 

I hope I've been well behaved enough to avoid being censored, but really I never can tell.

Bret

about 16 years ago

How much did these goofy tea bagers bilk the taxpayers of Duluth?  Or did the pay for the use of the public park, the shut down public street and the police presence? Somehow I doubt it as they seemed like either hypocrits or idiots or both.

Oh, and how many of them actually are in the top 3% of income earners that might just benefit from these corporate manipulated protests and how many are dupes?

Oh, and what the heck happened to Russ Stewart?  From Green to Right-Wing Libertarian (e.g., create the vacuum so corporate America can run rampant) in three or so years.  Weird.

arrogant_jaded_prick

about 16 years ago

Yay! for diverse, nuanced opinions.

Yay! for well reasoned arguments

Yay! for linky-links

Go, Blue Teamsters!  Fight!  Win!

Go, Red Teamsters!  Fight!  Win!

At the end of this game of capture the flag we'll roast marshmallows and tell ghost stories around the campfire.  Yay!

thaddeus the rapper

about 16 years ago

Speaking of boring: Burly is back!

another amy

about 16 years ago

I missed teabagging down at the harbor?!?  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabagging&defid=1608058

arrogant_jaded_prick

about 16 years ago

By the way Spy1, while I'm pretty sure I don't share your political philosophy, I find your picture to be awesome.  Can I ask what you took it with?

zra

about 16 years ago

burl, et al, I think the lot of us are pretty effin sick of this whole mess...

but i think the idea with the whole teabagging party thing is a blatant attempt at placing the responsibility of the financial mess squarely on the shoulders of the current occupant of the white house, regardless of the fact that he's only been on the job for less than 5 months...or else why weren't they tossing their lipton when BushCo was funding Wall Street carte blanche, bailing out AIG the first two times, Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac, Lehmann Bros, CitiBank, etc...

indeed, the very idea of what actually amounted to a pack of pissed of idiots getting together to protest the president and the government after hearing for eight long years that such behavior is treasonous and unpatriotic is laughable.

also laughable is the notion that this is somehow a "movement."

a hundred thousand pissed off idiots spread across a couple dozen cities tossing tea bags into whatever body of water they happen to live close to is hardly a movement.

2 million marching in the capital mall to protest the Iraq war...that's a movement. a few hundred thousand protesting bush's visit to any given city in europe...that's a movement.

my only hope is that now these crackers will get a sense of what effect public protest has on the political climate in this country...which is not much. what i do find amusing is the thought of these clowns standing with their silly little signs on Lake and Superior taking in as much physical and verbal abuse as they've meted out upon the antiwar folk that often stand in their place.

zra

about 16 years ago

on a side note...i have a hundred extra bucks in my account this month thanks to a hundred less dollars being taken out of my taxes this month...

which means...my taxes got cut.

might not seem like a lot, but i can do a lot with a hundred bucks.

arrogant_jaded_prick

about 16 years ago

Try this graphical depiction of the current economic crisis:

http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2009/04/graphic-depiction-of-economic-crisis.html

Does it make more sense now why these people might be ticked off regardless of which bratty, snot nosed president started it?

arrogant_jaded_prick

about 16 years ago

zra,

Your taxes may have been cut, but your daughter's got raised.  Where do you supposed all that bailout money is going to come from?

cando

about 16 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MdIU3Gw5l8

spy1

about 16 years ago

Cannon rebel xt digital.

Nice graphic. "It all started in September of 2008." Good humor. Another example of pointing out the obvious (in deep error) without any solutions. Check out any op-ed from that month and see how everyone has flipped on the issue based solely on politics. My kid has been run over by a car and I want to debate the driver's skills. Or debate how much effort it will take to lift the car from his chest.Or debate how they just don't make drivers or cars like they used to.

Dave Sorensen

about 16 years ago

In the first 5 years of the Bush administration, when Republicans also controlled congress, government spending rose by 45%

Under Obama's changes to the tax code, only 1.9% of small businesses ( those filing in the upper two tax brackets) will face higher taxes. 98.1% OF SMALL BUSINESSES WILL NOT HAVE THEIR TAXES RAISED.

Bush's Wall St bailout was an act of class warfare against Main St., and, sadly, Obama is continuing it, but all these warnings about creeping socialism are really stupid. Socialism! We should be so lucky. Some have compared this moment to Germany between the wars, when economically devastated people looked for a savior in the form of a strong man. 

Aprox. 2/3 of U.S. corporations pay NO taxes. The burden has been slowly shifted to individuals, who are struggling, and Republicans, who have been thoroughly disgraced, think this is one last thing they can exploit. It's the one hot button they can push again and again. If our tax system was truly  progressive, and we weren't supporting a military budget as large as the rest of the world's combined, they wouldn't even have that dead horse to beat. 

"You can judge the soul of a nation by how well it treats its banks."- The Onion

Tea Party footage, with Russ Stewart leading the charge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm8E0e2l9mI

baci

about 16 years ago

Thanks to bushCHENEY and the petro-military-profit-uber-alles Reich I provide you this lesson in globalism...

欢迎沃尔玛,我可以帮你吗?

Really, they sold our future to line their pockets, get their he-man texas air national guard rocks off and perpetuate the illusion that unilateralism is somehow sustainable. Now they grasp at straws and "teabag" Lake Superior.

Whats next? Steal our lunch money?

Progressives have been passive for too long! We've suffered under the neo-con adgenda since Reagan and now they muster a combined IQ of 200 (98% of it belonging to Russ) between the 700 of them (Budgeteers numbers) and cause environmental damage to the lake. Why aren't they down there now protesting the tax $$ wasted as we throw untold millions at a new HOCKEY ARENA @ the DECC??? Yeah we need another hockey arena like we need a hole in our ozone... Truly ignorant.

Paul Lundgren

about 16 years ago

The sales tax on restaurants and bars to pay for the DECC's new hockey arena was approved by 61 percent of voters, so elected officials can't really be blamed for that one.

Not that a protest couldn't be organized to bitch about the will of voters, but it's easier to draw a crowd by being vague and saying "stop spending my money you stupid politicians."

baci

about 16 years ago

61% approved of a sales tax increase? How many of the people who voted in favor were at the tea bagging?

No Name, Duluth

about 16 years ago

I second Dave Sorenson's rec to view the U-Tube footage of the Duluth Tea Party. Fascinating, the kinds of people who showed up. A lot of older folks, more men than women, a lot of white people (OK, I know it's Duluth). Not only did Russ Stewart's presence raise their median IQ, he also lowered their median age.

davids

about 16 years ago

I have to say that any shred of credibility Russ Stewart had for me pretty much shriveled away when I watched the clip Dave Sorensen mentions and heard Stewart praising the "best sign" he saw at the rally--one that said something like "Shock collars for Congress"--yeah Congress is full of people who sometimes make really bad decisions, but, please...

Paul Lundgren

about 16 years ago

Criticizing people for being old and white doesn't really strike at much of a point, if you ask me.

Calk

about 16 years ago

I think the coverage of the protest in the media was pretty fair and balanced. Although the editorial page the day before seemed like one huge advertisement for the Tea Party, b/c their editorial page stances seem to be dictated by the DNT's owners in Fargo, the coverage after the event revealed the "Astroturf" origins of these Tea Parties, and that they are highly partisan events aimed at discrediting Obama's attempts to resuscitate a hopelessly stalled economy, not a grassroots groundswell of citizens from all sides coming together to protest. Today's front page "Our View" piece in the Budgeteer was also spot on. And the photos of the angry shouting men in the DNT and the Budgie certainly did not endear the protesters to me.

arrogant_jaded_prick

about 16 years ago

baci says "欢迎沃尔玛,我可以帮你吗?"

I've been to a Walmart in China.  The greeter was quite proud that he could greet me in English. And he knew exactly which aisle the tabasco sauce was in.  I like globalism.  It means I can get cheese from Switzerland, chocolate from Belgium, and vodka from Russia right here in provincial, bassackwards Duluth.  And it means I can get Cajun spices when I'm in China.

As far as "neocons" stealing your future and lining their pockets, they are politicians, THAT IS THEIR JOB.  Your boy Barry is just continuing a long tradition.  Do you have buyers remorse yet?  Are you paying attention?

A lot of people are upset that this protest got co-opted by Republicans.  This isn't the first time the elephant has stuck its trunk under the tent flap.  It happens.  Just look at the anti-war protests.  I can't stand going anymore because the message gets diluted with calls for "social justice" which sounds good but means something entirely else.  I want peace but without having to listen to all the hippies.  Or smell the patchouli.

Spy1,

As far as solutions, if you find yourself in a hole, the best course of action is usually to stop digging.  If I find I have no money in my checking account, I don't go out and buy a new flatscreen TV with my children's piggy bank and I certainly don't buy one for my rich friends.

baci

about 16 years ago

omg, ajp... I semi-agree? hell hath frozen and it's the beginning of spring.

zra

about 16 years ago

ajp...

thanks to BushCo, my great grandkids are gonna be paying the national debt. the current bailouts are the least of their worries.

If they're really lucky, China won't be askin for all the money they loaned us to fight our silly little wars.

pH

about 16 years ago

My hunch is  
this will not be repaid.  At least not primarily via taxes, more likely through dollar devaluation (inflation). Which is a far more regressive way of paying up.  Progressives: take note! 

Consider the gas price increases last summer. If the govt had tried a 2 dollar/gallon gasoline tax, voters would have gone ape. There was still general grumbling, but not all at politicians. That is why I think inflation will be the reckoning tool of choice. (warning: I am NOT a trained economist! just some fool on the internet.) 

I don't think these tea parties were terribly effective.  However, they might be at staking out some political ground. GOP aiming for a populist swing back to the right. No such thing as a durable majority in a democracy of malcontents. It's hot and it's cold.  And cranky people don't always make good decisions. As Mr. Sorenson noted, the 
Weimar Republic example. 

Here's to hoping things get better soon, and doing what we can to help it along.

arrogant_jaded_prick

about 16 years ago

zra,
I ain't no apologist for the chimp.  I'm the silly little market anarchist, remember? I think taxation WITH representation ain't so hot either.

But picking on white, old, fat, gaping mouthed fellows at a goofy tax protest seems a little juvenile to me.

Oh, your daughter (and mine) WILL be paying for both the chimp's and the hope messiah's faults with the sweat of her brow.  Think Zimbabwean-style inflation.  Think currency devaluation.  Think Swedish-style taxation.  Think Roman-style conscription.  Think it can't get worse?  Look in your history books.

pH,

No public protest is effective.  The only truly effective method is private, quiet resistance.  One individual standing alone, making a difference.  Are you game?

Calk,

Saturday's Bugeteer article was horrible journalism.  Two quotes from leftist sources (PDD and commondreams) does NOT make a good article, no matter how much you might agree with it.  Try a little balance in your Metamucil. 

By the way, the best sign I saw was "Politicians should be required to wear their sponsor's trademarks, just like Nascar drivers."

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