Happy Birthday! Welcome to the Middle Ages!

I'm very much enjoying my 40s thus far and I highly recommend it.

By the way, I have nothing helpful to say on the other issue, though I am curious too. I'd really hate it if someone on DCB started using ironic1 as an alias and start saying things as if he or she were me. That would irk me no end. I know of other "ironic1s" out in the blogosphere, but none of them are pretending they are me or vice versa. Can a nickname or an internet handle be protected by law? It seems to me that the crux of this issue is that this person is attempting to portray him/herself as you.

I will wish you a happy birthday as well Mr. Starfire(the real one). I am a legal studues student right now and that makes me no authority whatsoever in the legal world, but from what I have learned, the internet is a pretty grey area and it is hard to make any legal sense out of things like this. I remember when I saw that handle and i was worried for a while. I can see where you would be upset considering your business goes by that name so you may have something there, but again, good luck getting anything done about it. DCB sucks and everyone knows that so at least you have that!

I don't like how they are talking t-shirts and whatnot with the DCB "Starfire".

If that was my business, I would be pissed. I'm sure if you try to post/straighten this out, they will just censor you.

I would try to contact Tony as the douchenozzle allows "STARFIRE" to moderate. He has to know him somehow. (or is just another of his alts.)

Funkenschutz, who posts on here fairly regularly, is an attorney who may be able to help you, Starfire.

Ezra frequents the DCB and we both commented on the fact that there was a mod going by the name of Starfire.

I think it was even mentioned on here at one point on one of the many posts regarding the DCB.

I am very glad to know it's not you and I wish you a super-dee-duper Happy Birthday!

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm only qualified to wish you a happy birthday! :)

I'm almost a lawyer. The laws governing internet activity are culled from the traditional areas of law. Internet law is still quite underdeveloped. Unless your name is a registered trademark, anyone can use it. If the imposter starts writing or doing things to make you 'look bad', it may veer in to libel. Sure, its real sucky for someone to pose as you, but unless they start saying/doing things that actually harm you or your business, and these are more than just statements of opinion, there is little to be done at this point other than what you've tried. Right now, The 'owner' of the site would be responsible. Oh yeah, and Happy Birthday!

Since John went through something similiar we know you definitely have a case, no question. Lawgeek (a Staff Attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation) was the one that handled John's case. Take them to town. This is pathetic.

Call you later.
I wish I could be at your birthday.

Lying and defaming are par for the course for those knuckleheads.

Someone was also looking at legal action against the DCB for some alledged stalking or simple scurllious behavior. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know how "safe" such blogs are from litigation.

Happy birthday Starfire.

Keep us posted on how 40 goes for you, I've got a little time til I get there myself.

Oh and by the way ... I do really like my new shirts. Thanks for your help on that.

As for knuckleheads? I feel for you, man. I'm sure its tough being a quasi-public figure in this two horse town

From DCB:

"Wed May 7 12:51:52 2008 - [Starfire, a well known Mod at the DCB ] By: bystander
STARFIRE: bystander, your comments will be taken under advisement. I don't know of any other "Starfires", but the businessman you made reference to may indeed be trying to copy and use for himself as and alias "Starfire" as it is a well known name of a moderator on Duluth's preeminent blog, the DCB, where the action is! You may want to ask this other person if they would be so kind as to stop using this name to bring an end to any confusion which may arise. Tony Ramone is currently out of the country, but when he returns, I could bring this to his attention if somebody you know would be interested in purchasing the name "Starfire" for a donation to the DCB on agreeable terms. I am not sure if this can even happen as I am not aware of any copyright on this name."

You know, I'll dole out free legal advice any time, any place (up to fifteen minutes' worth, anyway). Thanks for the referral, Tam & Zra. I am no longer practicing in the general civil arena. I do divorces and all the happy work associated therewith. My brief experience in this area of law (defamation of character) qualifies me to give you this advice, however: Monitor the situation for a little while longer. If this continues, draft a cease and desist letter (or better yet, have it typed up on some attorney's letterhead) and send it snail-mail to the parties responsible for the blog. Then if it still continues (it will, because they know they are pushing your buttons), sue it out immediately. Talk to an attorney now, though. I'll think about some referrals in the area and get back to you when I'm in the shop. I doubt if you'd have to satisfy the heightened standard of proof for public and quasi-public figures trying to prove defamation cases. You need to prove some type of damages, and I suppose it's possible to do so since you are the owner of a fairly reputable and visible business (i.e. your logo, etc.) By the way, the standards for defamation are as follows:
(1) a defamatory statement;
(2) published to third parties; and
(3) which the speaker or publisher knew or should have known was false.
Another potential cause of action would be the tort of invasion of privacy, specifically appropriation of one's likeness.
Talk to an attorney, Scott. This could be fun. You could even sue it out in Federal court, since this is occurring accross state lines (interweb and all that). That would really make them shit their pants. OK your free 15 minutes is up. Back to work, everyone.

Oh, and happy birthday, Scott.

JP, are you being sarcastic? Actually, I only qualify as a simple "quasi."

What Funkenschultz and Ginger said, except contact the DCB's ISP via snail mail. If that doesn't work contact their ISP's upstream ISP. Generally, slander isn't "okayed" in their Terms of Service. You raise enough flack with the nerds above them, they'll just pull their plug.

happy birthday, Scott..

I'd hate to see you drop your nick just because some jackhole insists on impersonating you.

happy birthday by the by...i just walked by your shop a minute ago, and saw the banner...yesterday I was @ the Union and had a Starship (black and tan made with Starfire and tugboat...a cousin of my increasingly popular Stuck Boat recipe which is Sup Trail and Tugboat)...quite nice. a little sweet/citrus-ey there toward the end of the pint.

AND, if it's any consolation...I'm only 2 years and a few months behind you on the big four oh.

One of the other angles you can use is the potential confusion the average person may have distinguishing between "Starfire Screen Printing" and DCB "Starfire."

The people you need to bring legal action against is Northern Visual Services, the owners of the DCB domain. "Designers" or not, this business is responsible for the DCB.

This is roughly what I said:

"To the moderator using the alias "Starfire". It appears you are posing as a Duluth businessman that also goes by that name and uses that name as part of his locally owned business. In the support of local business, please reconsider using the Starfire alias."

It was as sweet and respectful as that. I was not aggressive and asked politely.

And this person is claiming to be you and representing your business. Since all posts have to be approved by a moderator, and they approved the comment:
"Question for Starfire. Has a final decision been reached regarding the DCB T-Shirts and new logos ? I have a DCB logo suggestion.
"Whether it's dog shit or DFL'ers, DCB is out to clean up Duluth!" it would appear that they are indeed trying to make people believe they are you. Normally I would say "it's the internet. people are dumb. there's nothing you can do." but in this case, they are actually claiming to be Starfire, the owner of a business. It would be worth it to check in to the legal ramifications of this.

For a discussion board that often features talk about saving business, this flies in the face of what they promote.

Hey Starfire, Happy Birthday whichever one you are.

As for any legal action, I'd be willing to contribute $$ toward any action you may take against that "blog".

Starfire, I thought on your behalf I'd take up this cause. This is not "Ben Dover" of DCB fame - but two can play at this game. I'm glad to hear that it wasn't you, the Starfire of T-shirt fame, on DCB. It really did make me like you less, and actually did prevent me on one occasion from pursuing the purchase of a t-shirt from you. Honestly. I thought, "Boy, he makes cool t-shirts, especially for such a massive d-bag." So it certainly could have impacted your business. It did in this instance. I should've known better, because those 4 guys who consistently post at DCB are insane lunatics, but I didn't think too much about it - just a "huh, that's surprising, Starfire's one of those d-bags?" and that was it. Good luck with your case, because I concur - you need to take some sort of action here.

Well, it didn't take long for the DCB crowd to start making fun of the issue. Man, they're consistant.

Scott,

I sincerely hope all this gets straightened out before you lose any more business because of this fake Starfire loser -- and happy 40th, by the way!

Cheers!
Matt

I didn't know "Starfire" was for sale:

"STARFIRE: bystander, your comments will be taken under advisement. I don't know of any other "Starfires", but the businessman you made reference to may indeed be trying to copy and use for himself as and alias "Starfire" as it is a well known name of a moderator on Duluth's preeminent blog, the DCB, where the action is! You may want to ask this other person if they would be so kind as to stop using this name to bring an end to any confusion which may arise. Tony Ramone is currently out of the country, but when he returns, I could bring this to his attention if somebody you know would be interested in purchasing the name "Starfire" for a donation to the DCB on agreeable terms. I am not sure if this can even happen as I am not aware of any copyright on this name."

History sets precedent...as does use of said nickname or alias...

Scott, I'd be hitting Ben Small up post haste.

Starfire, it really is too bad about the DCB folks and their sophomoric attempts to mock PPD and the larger community it fosters. Back in the day the site was run by Connect Duluth which presumably still has some non anonymous participants. Many of whom, I suspect, are no doubt connected to the business community in Duluth. Connect Duluth distanced themselves from the site when they became the laughing stock of local politics for defaming high profile business leaders they disagreed with. I'm not sure that they ever really separated themselves until recently when the site closed due to presumed lack of interest and participation. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that even though the site is notorious for it's divisiveness, maybe you can contact one of the Connect Duluth people and appeal to their sense of fairness and ethics, business person to business person. It may be possible to handle the situation like adults, without the threat of legal trouble or petty retaliation. Or I could just be naive. Either way, don't let it get you down. Summer is here, you are 40 and you have many wonderful things to look forward to.

If they are actually (mis)representing you, have a legitimate trademark dispute. DMCA cease & desist letters are a wonderful tool with ISPs.

There is not much you can do about stuff like that. You have your name out there and that makes you public property according to the current laws on free speech.

It does suck. I had a certain internet podcaster use my name as a character, refer to me in many terms, and then slander me. Nothing I can do though because my name is out there.

Don't taze me, bro...

I was not being sarcastic, I really do like the shirts, and I am close to 40. As for Scott, perhaps I should have used the term "mr. popularity" or "ultra lib soviat beerhaus guy" since I didn't mean to step on any ones toes with my faux legalese

Starfire -- I feel for you. My husband was also impersonated by the nuts on DCB and one of the half dozen crazies who post there stalked me. Maybe if we all write letters to Northern Visual Services, that'd take care of it. I think you do have a case, b/c this impersonation is affecting your business. When my husband was impersonated, everyone who knew him just laughed, b/c whoever was doing it could not sound like him. Maybe the DNT should write another report on DCB and their crazy antics. I'd be happy to go on the record with my own experiences with them. i just don't go over there anymore, and I'm a happier person for it. Life is good in Duluth, who needs to read crazy rants by losers?

It's been almost exactly a year since I unilaterally declared Happy Fun Duluth Citizens Day, maybe it's time to do it again!

(I'm kidding, actually. I don't think it yielded any positive results and I doubt it would this time. Better to leave them stew in their own juices, methinks, and have our own Happy Fun.)

Happy Fun Duluth Citizens Day

That was weird. In my previous comment it looked like my link worked, but it doesn't seem to. Retrying.

This was my blog entry from when I turned forty, has good advice... http://zoyx.livejournal.com/27917.html

I think anyone who has tried to bring ideas different to theirs over there has been impersonated. I woulld say Claire took the biggest beating but I can see where Scott is pretty P.O.'d. I stopped going there a while ago and some how my old handle still pops up from time to time. And they think they know how to run the city better than anyone else!

Isn't "identity theft" the legal excuse currently being used to separate undocumented workers from their children and deport them? Maybe you should try to go that route. (Just kidding... I would never really wish that on anyone, even the slime at DCB who may wish it on others).

Oh, and happy b-day man.

Nyabuk -- I took a beating from those scary fucks, but, man, it doesn't affect my business! I feel for Starfire -- there are people here on PDD who think that he posts on DCB. That is sad. I think I'm going to pitch a story to the DNT on this -- like someone else wrote, these people claim to promote local business, and then they sabotage local entrepreneurs. I'm glad Starfire said something, instead of just stewing in silence. And Scott, your t-shirts ROCK, esp. the Kozy in Lakeside t-shirt.

Lawyer drafted C&D letter to the ISP, save all copies of transactions/correspondences you send/receive, and screenshots of the blog posts.

Let me get this straight. A 40 year old man is getting upset and considering legal actions because somebody else is using the name "Starfire".

Um...yeah.

Dear Danny,

A 40 year old man is not upset that someone is using the name Starfire. A 40 year old man is upset because someone is using the name Starfire and claiming to be me. There is a slight difference.

um...yeah.

Karma is a bitch

since, as barrett pointed out, it's this NVS that hold the domain, a letter to all their clients might be in order. They post their client list on the site. You have a case starfire, BTW I was there when you were christened with that moniker and will happily atest to it.

If anyone wound know about trademark infringement it would be you.

Karma is a bitch

Oh, did you give your self that nickname? Because really, it is no different than a Trucker handle and I have have meet alot of Sidewinders, T-bones and Starfires in my day

Get over it.

the trolls must be starving

Well, I'd agree with Shawn on one point, this can't be about trademark infringement. But, Shawn, that's not the point. It's about someone pretending to be Starfire, regardless of his name. That's where the line is. When the person on DCB allowed people to believe he was the same Starfire of Starfire Screen Printing that person crossed the line.

Its like when Starfire made and sold t-shirts that said Kozy Bar on them though he has nothing to do with that bar, he profited by using another business name for his own benefit. Not to mention make fun of the Lady from lakeside at the same time

Now he has his panties in a bunch because he thinks he owns his nickname and someone is using it.

What goes around comes around.

Karma is a bitch

Get over it, and by the way did you give yourself that nickname?

10-4 Good buddy

These folks deserve no mercy. Use the law as it should be used to prevent defamation. Good luck!

This reminds me of Spike Lee trying to sue SpikeTV.

why? did the entire network of SpikeTV pretend to be the individual filmmaker?

That was his contention...just based on the idea that his name is "Spike" (even though it really isnt) and the network changed their name to "SpikeTV" from TNN as a way to get a more male-oriented image.

I don't want liquor sold in my neighborhood, b/c if you open up bars in Lakeside, next thing you know, the Indians and the Blacks will start coming into Lakeside, looking for trouble. Then they'll want to move here. So I order my poison from Lake Aire, they'll even deliver booze to Lakeside! I'm sure the Lady of Lakeside would not like my hypocrisy, but tough beans for her. She's dead anyway. Life is good. And the Indians and the Blacks stay downtown, where they belong.

Bah ha ha...WHAT!?!?

I was going to argue with Shawn, but then his last statement discredited him more than I ever could have. Thanks for making life easy.

The Starfire on DCB has made statements on a number of occasions that would lead the reader to believe he is Scott Lunt. They should stop that bullshit.

I took it simply as a stilted jest, gibe, or strong unpleasant poke in the ribs. I always take name "tags" across different blogs with a grain of salt, anyway.

As for legality. I think that the public forum (the internet) nor those who provide the service (ISP) nor the user on that service can be held liable for use of a name that is not already in use in their namespace. In other words, names are free reign and are controlled only in the local namespace, especially on a blog. This is why we have domain names, email addresses, ip addresses, etc. when the space becomes worldwide. Of course, this doesn't nail such an identity to a single person, but it does nail an identity to an account.

My 0.03 euro 8^)

Huitz, it's defamation. This person is trying to persuade his readers that he is indeed Scott Lunt, and is actively trying to damage his reputation.

WTF is all this? Troll, Troller & McTrollerson Attorneys @ Law?

Best place not to get legal advice ever.

I hope this goes on your list of greatest local threads ever ... and this one isn't even close to being done yet! Just to be clear, I completely feel for you, Scott. I haven't had this happen, but it COULD easily happen to me and that would be just awful for my business and for my character which (good or bad) I have spent a long time building up. I do think they should be stopped, but ... on the other hand, perhaps the "troll feeding" folks have a point, maybe this attention is just what the folks want ... And if that is true, how sad ... they must have truly dreary lives.

adam,

You'd be a daisy if ya do.

Barret,

Understood. It's just that an anonymous label used in some blog doesn't seem to carry much weight when it comes to defamation. It would be hard, though possible, to prove that the person's intent was to defame a person who may or may not be the original Starfire.

I get asked many times about how to profile a person on the internet, and I always respond, no, you are not profiling a person, you are profiling a source of communication, and that provider of that source shouldn't really be held unequivocally accountable. That's, of course, just my humble opinion.

If the intentions of the "fake" Starfire are that obvious, and I've missed it, then yes, the person(s) is/are (a) dickhead(s).

But did the charged source of communication ever actually say anything about being part of Starfire Screen Printing Co? If so, they suck.

In any case, I guess it doesn't matter. People will bicker, irregardless (yes, that is a word).

I think it is funny that the fake starfire says that Tony Ramone is out the country. There is no such person as Tony Ramone, it is just one the many pseudonyms that the dope running the so-called blog uses. It now seems that this same idiot has decided to use the name Starfire. I would really to love see this guy exposed. I am betting he is a complete loser--a fat poor right wing dope with an internet connection.

I think this will be a topic on my next super fantastic podcast.

Oooo. I get it. You used the name "Danny" and impersonate me and that's supposed to make me realize that it's not nice when it happens to may and thus make me question my thinking that this whole situation is insanely dorky.

Sorry. Didnt work. However, I will most-likely be talking about this on tomorrow's episode of the award-winning DANNY DOES DULUTH (found at www.lewlattolive.com, by the way).

Oooo. I get it. You used the name "Danny" and impersonated ME and that's supposed to make me realize that it's not nice when it happens to me and thus make me question my thinking that this whole situation is insanely dorky.

Sorry. Didnt work. However, I will most-likely be talking about this on tomorrow's episode of the award-winning DANNY DOES DULUTH (found at www.lewlattolive.com, by the way).

i like to post twice.......

i like to post twice.......

i like to post twice.......

Na na na na boo boo.

Speaking of which: I'm not wearing pants.

I will have the last word damn it! Na na na na boo boo.

I will have the last word damn it! Na na na na boo boo.

ehh...seems as more have joined the fray...what a bunch of fucking bullies.

They're like hyenas circling around, afraid to do anything til their leader acts first.

cowards.

I see one of them had the gall to accuse PDD of being angry and hateful...and then you read last evening's "posts."

wow.

I finally decided to listen to Danny's show, as he was going to say something about Brandon Stahl, but I got bored after the first couple of minutes of Danny rambling to himself. Constructive criticism, Danny, you suck at podcasting. I'd rather listen to my can opener. As a DCB regular, you should appreciate the honest truth instead of any of that feel-good liberal kumbaya sentiment that you and your dopy friends at the DCB make fun of. Karma, dude. Karma. And tell your buddy, Ben Dover I hope his parole get's denied.

Zra, I'm sure we share more beliefs than differences, despite our remarks concerning Jeno. So I officially apologize.

#1: I freely admit that I suck at podcasting. My old show (Pre-DDD) was basically a show making fun of other podcasters and the theme was "A shitty podcast about shitty podcasts".

#2: I really don't understand the idea that I'm friends with anyone on DCB. I don't know anybody over there.

Now lets bring this back on topic and go back to talking about the 40-year old man who wants to be the only one named Starfire.

#1 Commendable you admit it. I would suck too, so I don't do it.

#2 Given how the DCB'ers keep themselves secret, it's hard to know who are friends or not. Denying it it doesn't make it so.

Back to the topic about the 40-year-old who doesn't like someone else claiming to be him, which is legit.

I don't have any advice or anything, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry about the faux-Starfire situation--that really sucks.

A site search reveals that the name "starfire" started being used in February. I found this comment by Ben Dover (aka Tony Ramone) interesting.

71534 - Tue Feb 19 21:28:32 2008 - [Member of the creative class] By: Ben Dover

On another note, what is up with this new moderator, Starfire? Don't tell me The Taint of the Rump Runners has switched teams? I consider myself part of the creative class, and even for me this may be too much creativity to bare. But then again I do not nor have I ever suffered from GID(Gender Idenity Disorder). I want to moderate too, like Danny. This site could use my balance and moderation. LOL

STARFIRE: There is only ONE Starfire here at the DCB, me. If you are interested in moderating Ben, contact Tony Ramone directly. Thank you

A site search reveals that the name "starfire" started being used in February. I found this comment by Ben Dover (aka Tony Ramone) interesting.

71534 - Tue Feb 19 21:28:32 2008 - [Member of the creative class] By: Ben Dover

On another note, what is up with this new moderator, Starfire? Don't tell me The Taint of the Rump Runners has switched teams? I consider myself part of the creative class, and even for me this may be too much creativity to bare. But then again I do not nor have I ever suffered from GID(Gender Idenity Disorder). I want to moderate too, like Danny. This site could use my balance and moderation. LOL

STARFIRE: There is only ONE Starfire here at the DCB, me. If you are interested in moderating Ben, contact Tony Ramone directly. Thank you

Too bad it's not Starfire - then maybe I could actually get a comment published on that site. (Dissenting comments are never posted, surprise surprise.) I think it's just one person talking to himself who has convinced a bunch of aged AOL users that it's a real blog.

Not that I'm defending DCB, but I've had many "dissenting comments" posted on there.

Can we pleeeez get back to the salient point: that I'm not wearing pants.

Can we pleeeez get back to the salient point: that I'm not wearing pants.

Troll, Troller & McTrollerson Attorneys @ Law
Hilarious.
At least one good thing came out of this.

vicarious,
thanks for keepin' it real! you rock.

Vicarious, you are too funny! THanks for reminding us what really matters.

Starfire, you totally need to make a "Duluth Rump Runners" shirt!

maybe I already have...

I totally need to buy a "Duluth Rump Runners" shirt!!!

Do you sell Duluth Rump Runners t-shirts in youth sizes, Starfire?

They might be trying to pass as you specifically but even so "Starfire" is not the sort of identity you can do much with legally. Sort of like how many people post artwork online and sign with an alias. You couldn't copyright intellectual property as Starfire and along similar reasoning I doubt you'd have any sort of legal grounds for someone using your online alias. Besides, go Google "Starfire" and note the bajillion results which probably have nothing to do with you. It's not exactly unique and you can't really claim it a serious sense.

That and this really shouldn't be a big deal. It's not much different than a situation where *gasp* "someone's writing about me or pretending to be me on Myspace!" The internet is a silly place full of drama and nonsense, save your worries for if someone pretends to be you in the News Tribune =P

Hey Danny, where do YOU work?...

In Duluth.

Your stupid site of PDD is a joke! Your causes, complaints, and art is that of a 5 year old.

And I should know as my humor is that of a 5 year old!

Hey Deafyet, wanna join me at the Sauna tonight? It is college night!

will you morons knock it off already?

Seriously, enough already. We know the people at the DCB hate everything about everything and will never ever stop complaining. We know people here on PDD like photography, art, and good jokes, and don't hate everything about everything....in short, we are not a bunch of hicks and rednecks. Be that as it may, lets all just stay to our own and just live and let live.

Such acrimony going on in my beloved home town. Happy B-day. Enjoy the next decade as things start to go to shit when you hit 50. As to the handle, unless you have gone to the trouble of trade marking or copy writing Starfire you are pretty much SOL.

Already trying to settle. Bad Sign. And the profanity. My call is that the blog will fail just like it has in the past.